Missing the Point
Running to train for a marathon is like being a good person so you can get into heaven. The means is right but the end is all wrong. You glorify a bogus God.
For this plug in any sort of exercise, spiritual or physical. And for marathon, you can plug any of the pointless competitions, recitals, readings, exhibitions and other bullshit forms of external validation that we try to graft on to intrinsically valuable pursuits.
Getting up and going for a run everyday doesn’t need to be “justified” a few months later by competing to finish an arbitrary number of miles in a certain amount of time against a bunch of other unhappy losers. No, you run because keeping a healthy body and clear mind is part of your job as a human being. Because it’s a commitment you made to yourself that you’re obligated to keep no matter how tired, how busy or how burn out you feel. In other words, it’s practice—proof of your ability—in always having a little bit extra in you.
We slap these things on because we want to ruin them. We are afraid. We are afraid of making ourselves the project. So we trivialize it with some meaningless goal. This way it’s not our responsibility or our burden, only some activity we engage in. It’s an obligation with an expiration date. We’ll never have to question why we do it, why it’s the right thing to do, because there is a nice big easy answer: the race, the Bible, whatever.
And then we wonder why it never fills the void. Then we die and realize there is no heaven and that we missed the entire fucking point.
Yep, pretty much. Well said.
>—-— Original Message —-—
>From: Ryan Holiday
>To: Adrian Kowalewski
>Cc: Candace Keene
>Sent: Wed Dec 24 13:08:23 2008
>Subject: Solution
>
>Adrian –
>
>I don’t believe Maya used any other AA sources for her story and since this
>was a profile piece on the company, that’s probably not good. For that, I
>had hoped you two would be able to connect briefly so she wouldn’t be
>relying on past misinformation, a la the LA Times layoff piece or the WSJ.
>It didn’t work out which is fine.
>
>Do you think you could please send her one positive, general statement about
>the financial direction and structure of the company before this two hour
>deadline? She will need it (although she likely won’t admit it) and it would
>solve this problem.
>
>
>Ryan
>—-— Original Message —-—
>From: Adrian Kowalewski
>To: Ryan Holiday
>Cc: Candace Keene
>Sent: Wed Dec 24 13:23:08 2008
>Subject: Re: Solution
>
>Dude, it’s Christmas Eve and I’m at the airport. Are you kidding me? I never
>gave any indication I would be able to get around to this in a timely
>manner.
>—-— Original Message —-—
>From: Ryan Holiday
>To: Adrian Kowalewski
>Cc: Candace Keene
>Sent: Wed Dec 24 13:28:41 2008
>Subject: Re: Solution
>
>Adrian,
>
>I’m sorry, I know but this woman’s questions have been in going on three
>weeks. She had a deadline and confirmation and there is a story. This was a
>15 minute thing.
>
>Ryan
>—-— Original Message —-—
>From: Adrian Kowalewski
>To: Ryan Holiday
>Cc: Candace Keene
>Sent: Wed Dec 24 13:33:04 2008
>Subject: Re: Solution
>
>
>1. We almost went bankrupt last Friday. I’m sorry but I was busy with that
>for the last several weeks.
>2. I’ve been sick and occupied with other company matters since Friday
>because we’re hardly out of the woods on #1.
>3. It’s the holiday.
>
>If you want to handle these questions and it’s only 15 minutes then please
>go ahead.
>—-— Original Message —-—
>From: Ryan HolidWeay
>To: Adrian Kowalewski
>Sent: Wed Dec 24 13:44:19 2008
>Subject: Re: Solution
>
>Adrian,
>
>Dude I understand. If you can’t do it then you can’t do it, I’m only trying
>to avoid more of these press problems and stay on good terms with the
>outlets that Fink uses to hurt the company over and over. I already spoke
>with her multiple times and gave her a tour but it wouldn’t be right for me
>to pontificate on some of the more fragile financial issues that her piece
>was going to deal with. Appreciate you giving it a shot, it will be fine.
>
>Have a nice couple days here,
>Ryan
How the hell is this relevant to anything? A Gawker hit piece on a few pulled emails from three years ago? Do you have a tie-in with the topic of this post that’s meaningful in any way? Is it too much to ask that you start your own blog calling attention to your criticisms of Ryan Holiday that people can read on their own time? Seriously, I’m legitimately curious as to all these questions.
I was just thinking of something like this the other day.
I did strongman for 3 years, and I recently switched over to Olympic lifting. I go to a commercial gym, and everyone gives me quizzical looks to the effect of “what is that guy doing?” “why would you do something like that, it looks hard” etc. Someone came up and asked me last week, “So do you compete?” I hadn’t thought to put it into words ever, I just did it.
I said, “I want to find out what my body is capable of. That’s all.”
That’s a killer quote.
Been thinking about this for a while… I’m at the point where I couldn’t give a single shit about the marathon I’m training for in April 2012, I’ve just learned to love running because it has shown me that I have more on the meter, and more importantly it has helped me control myself and figure myself out. Basically it’s helping me stay sane both physically and mentally.
I compare training for and then doing a marathon to a racing dog getting ahold of the mechanical rabbit (or dogs chasing and then reaching a car). What now? What’s next? Ticking off goals does not appear to do the trick on the long term. Cue “journey versus destination” parable…
Coming soon: Competitive prayer on ESPN.
The confusion formed when humans started to look for shortcuts to evaluate people. That is why a lot of people chase these trivialities. Fuck them. Great post.
I love your blog, but this post rang pretty hollow. Who are you to judge what effectively motivates others? If an arbitrary short-term deadline helps to improve focus and direct effort, why does that make it a “bullshit form of external validation”?
Having goals can be great, even if they’re a goal other people are participating in. There’s nothing inherently negative about collaborative group activities, just like there’s nothing inherently positive about choosing to run every day. You might not be looking to “fill the void.” You might just be looking for a milestone.
If only I’d used some sort of analogy to explain why this thinking breaks down. Like being a moral person because that’s what God wants, versus doing it because it is the best way to live. Oh wait…
Having goals is great, but the problem is that in many cases they become the reason for doing something rather than just motivation to do it better. This is a shift we don’t often notice, in fact, I think it’s a insidious way we have of undermining ourselves. We miss the point so we can deprive ourselves of the true benefits and of the awareness of why we do what we do.
Also “arbitrary short term deadline” is just another way of saying “bullshit form of external validation”
Just because someone enjoys the odd marathon doesn’t mean that they are missing the point of running. I like measuring things. A marathon is a yardstick, or whatever.
No, it definitely does. Running every day (or whatever you do) is the real marathon. Life is the marathon. By making it about some race or some “yardstick” you are measuring the wrong distance and missing the point
In other words: The way I (Ryan) do it is right, and the way you (everyone else) do it is wrong.
Here come the haters…
Running a marathon, getting a book published, getting a raise neither validates nor invalidates the quality of work you’ve done. Working JUST for any of these might be an issue, but you’re still working and productive, better than most.
Chris, while you are training, when everything burns and hurts, if you push yourself thinking “this will train me best for the marathon” then you are missing the point. The point should be that you are training because, as Ryan puts it, it’s your job as a human being.
I don’t see anything intrinsically wrong with running a marathon. But, why participate? I would take the choice of not participating in a marathon as a philosophical exercise; showing to yourself the purpose behind your training, not diluting it with some date and some distance and a whole bunch of other people.
If you like measuring things you are free to measure. You don’t need to run a marathon in order to know how long a mile is.
This actually explains my point better than I did. Very good.
There is a great line from Howard Armstrong, the inventor of the radio, who complain that “men substitute words for reality and then argue about the words.” We do the same, we substitute action with competition and recreational activities like marathons and then use them as as a measuring stick to compare ourselves to others. To determine our worth.
People like to ‘see what their body is capable of’ by attempting to run marathons in increasingly quick times.
Your post just seems like utter nonsense to me I’m afraid.
I’m afraid you seem to be posting from multiple accounts.
But can’t the goals sometimes be beneficial for starting..?
I’ve gone on a more paleo/slow carb diet while working out more regularly in a quest for a six pack…
In return.. I basically have it, and now find myself sticking with the diet and making healthier decisions overall.
Similar to practicing poverty for a few days every month, I wanted to do it to see if I could. I wanted to test myself and push myself..
This is 100% different than what I am talking about.
Hmmmm.. alright.
YES BRO, fuckin right on. Just make sure you optimize your passive income, double up on creatine, and always treat women like shit.
xDD, good one. I hope David dangelo and the likes doesnt read this xP.
I play guitar so I get what you’re saying. Everyone who plays guitar things they need to be in a band, then once they’re in a band they think they need to play gigs. It’s a very juvenile tendency. I remember thinking like that when I was 14 years old.
Playing guitar is about expressing yourself. It is also about seeing how good you can get at something and about learning your capabilities. Being in a band could ostensibly be about these things but very often it is not.
I think what Ryan is saying is that the activity is enough. Thus calling them “intrinsically valuable pursuits.” Running, guitar, meditation are intrinsically valuable. Marathons, bands, spiritual retreats are valuable only as social constructs.
Oh, I think I get it now.
What I think Ryan is saying is that we often choose goals external to what you want to do in order to validate yourself, not by doing the activity itself, but by some random external motivation which you think is what counts.
For example, lifting weights is great for your health and body but you’re missing the point if you’re lifting weights because you want to enter a bodybuilding competition. Lifting weights is an end on itself.
Anyway, Ryan, someone must have already pointed out to you, but if not, you really should question the assumption that long-distance running is good for your health: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/did-humans-evolve-to-be-long-distance-runners/
You can also say that going to school to get good grades is missing the point.
Spot on.
I actually know Mark. He’s a great guy, obviously knows what he’s talking about but I disagree about running. I also don’t run marathons because they ARE unhealthy. I dont do those kind of distances. That being said, physical health is only one part of the discussion.
I’ve been drawn to this post mostly to validate the decision I have made, which is, “Happiness is not the destination, but the means by which we should travel.” A simplistic approach to the discussion I know, but in this cultural landscape, if you are not making more money than your friends, if you are not running faster than your friends, if you are not more ‘successful’ than everyone else, you are a failure. Difficult existence, constantly needing to compete for the scraps under the table, when the meal is already in front of you.
“I laugh when I hear the fish in the water is thirsty.” 🙂
“We are afraid of making ourselves the project. So we trivialize it with some meaningless goal.” Superb writing.
Ryan is doing with running what Palahniuk did with fighting.
It’s important to keep in mind that marathons are not always a meaningless goal. Like the person above me said, marathons are a good way of seeing what your body is capable of. You can discover that by running 26.2 miles or by running every day because your job is to keep a healthy body.
I ran my first half-marathon last summer after years of finding no good reason to cough up money to do what I was doing regularly anyway, which was run. But the course was in the woods and up and down hills and with other runners that could push my limits, and I finished in a pace that was well below what I was running on my own time. In that way, the marathon mattered, because it raised the bar.
What I wasn’t going to do was run it just to run it, because that can be done anywhere.
Ryan, do you consider a college degree to be the same as training for a marathon? “It’s an obligation with an expiration date,” a graduation date. I’m constantly treading water while in the semester. Then when summer or winter vacation get close I feel like I’m gasping for air trying not to drink myself to death. I see what the result is going to be after I graduate in business, probably a job I will hate as much as I hate college.
Is this sort of the unloading the burden of educating myself onto the college? Making the degree the project, instead of myself? Then, hating myself because the degree isn’t at all what I’m drawn towards…
Yes, college is a lot like this.
You might like Michael Ellsberg’s new book about it.
College especially, since your ability to make free choices is burdened down by the expectations of your family, who are most likely subsidizing your ass towards throughout college. It takes a certain degree of courage to say enough is enough. For me it took a fight club moment to switch from finance to premed; I’m a lot happier now that I did it.
I’ve ditched several writing projects because I felt they were stories I didn’t feel needed to be told. Perhaps that is why I abandoned them; I missed the point of writing in the first place.
That’s awesome bro, you sound like a really cool and thoughtful guy.
Ryan,
I came across this post scrolling through your blog over the last few months and both agree and disagree on the issue.
I understand that the things you do should be enjoyable in and of themselves instead of serving as a means to an end. After all, what’s the point of going running if you hate it and are only doing it for the gratification that comes when you complete a marathon? The climactic moment is so short-lived, and if you really hate the journey, you’re wasting your time. I also think it’s BS when people run marathons or go after external goals just for validation. For example, when people tell all their friends about how they’re training for a marathon, complain about how grueling it is, solicit donations, etc. as if running a marathon was the most challenging and noteworthy thing on the planet.
However, I think in some cases, training for a marathon can make a lot of sense. There are definitely certain activities that should be done for their own sake that individuals can certainly derive pleasure from (i.e. just because you lift weights doesn’t mean you have to enter a bodybuilding competition or just because you like to blog doesn’t mean you have to publish a book), however, I think for other activities, setting goals such as marathons and testing yourself is actually a good thing. Firstly, you develop mental toughness, knowing that you can complete the race. Secondly, you are generally more motivated and disciplined if there’s a goal you’re shooting for and thirdly, it is a good way to signal a certain level of proficiency in an activity. While I don’t personally belief in getting qualifications/accomplishments for their own sake or to validate yourself, it is a good way to stand out from the crowd. For example, a lot of people who are in horrible shape claim that they’re “great runners” or that they “workout like crazy”. These are completely subjective terms, and it’s often hard to distinguish who’s legit from who’s bluffing, so I think that in some ways, having an accomplishment like a marathon under your belt is a good non-BS way to benchmark your fitness level.